tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post8586267840891246891..comments2023-06-01T22:34:43.769+10:00Comments on A feminist open to criticism: Why the idea that women have human rights in Australia is a jokeA socialist open to criticismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-67480634170059304522011-01-10T12:36:47.122+11:002011-01-10T12:36:47.122+11:00Actually I did cite the source: "the Australi...Actually I did cite the source: "the Australian Centre for the Study of Sexual Assault whose web site says that according to a 1995 survey ...".<br /><br />The wage gap is an institutional force?<br /><br />The D&G image is quite obviously staged and it is a deliberate attempt to shock - it can hardly be called a positive portrayal of rapeDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09820442661195206578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-88244222139752428142010-12-10T14:05:27.546+11:002010-12-10T14:05:27.546+11:00"So you won't accept stats from official ..."So you won't accept stats from official government sources but you will accept them from a random website that does not say where the numbers come from?"<br /><br />Well firstly you didn't source your reference. Secondly I have read lots more studies that put the number much higher than you did. It is difficult to go back through everything and find the correct articles again. If you really want me to I will put aside some holiday time to do so.<br /><br />"I still can't find where you define the "Institutional Forces" <br /><br />I didn't "define" but I gave an example. The wage gap. You declined to comment.<br /><br />Likewise with Dolce & Gabbana - can you give an example of how they portay rape in a positive light? <br /><br />http://www.cherryflava.com/photos/uncategorized/dolcegabbana03.jpgA socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-71918431313563793792010-12-10T10:58:38.139+11:002010-12-10T10:58:38.139+11:00So you won't accept stats from official govern...So you won't accept stats from official government sources but you will accept them from a random website that does not say where the numbers come from?<br /><br />The .3% figure comes from a survey, not from police reports. It INCLUDES assaults not reported to the police. So really - not a great epidemic.<br /><br />I still can't find where you define the "Institutional Forces" that you claim are perpetuating rape - can you run it past me one more time?<br /><br />Likewise with Dolce & Gabbana - can you give an example of how they portay rape in a positive light?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09820442661195206578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-1578781933017065352010-12-10T09:11:49.501+11:002010-12-10T09:11:49.501+11:00Additionally I will say that police don't tend...Additionally I will say that police don't tend to pay attention to sexual assault or rape where they can not see physical harm. Given the estimated high rates of "date rape" and the fact the chance of physical harm is lower who can really put that much stock into these statistics?A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-70195174435476869032010-12-10T09:01:24.521+11:002010-12-10T09:01:24.521+11:00"But it is a rarity. Less than .3%. In fact i..."But it is a rarity. Less than .3%. In fact if you account for male victims is more like 0.25%. And most of these will be minor, as already discussed. Hardly an epidemic is it?"<br /><br />http://www.nationmaster.com/country/as-australia/cri-crime<br /><br />I would also say that as it is still approximated that there is a large amount of sexual assault AND rape specifically that goes unreported that it would be higher than this 1%. I would say that is quite high for a "rarity" actually.A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-27903597130859018492010-12-10T08:53:24.307+11:002010-12-10T08:53:24.307+11:00"No, but you do use emotive wording to imply ..."No, but you do use emotive wording to imply that the likelihood and severity of an assault is much greater than in fact it is."<br /><br />Sorry I don't agree.<br /><br />"What “institutional forces” are you talking about?"<br /><br />I already specified<br /><br />"There is only one place that I can think of that ever portrays rape in any kind of positive light"<br /><br />There are lots of places in the media that do so. Dolce and gabbana springs to mind.A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-18693591997289005792010-12-10T07:39:28.607+11:002010-12-10T07:39:28.607+11:00“…I never specified severity of the crime. However...“…I never specified severity of the crime. However I would say everything that you listed can have an emotional impact…”<br /><br />No, but you do use emotive wording to imply that the likelihood and severity of an assault is much greater than in fact it is.<br /><br />“…I would also say that is a result of institutional forces that do keep a woman "in her place". Such as the wage gap...which yes still exists in Australia…”<br /><br />I think we should leave the “wage gap” for another day. <br /><br />“…Maybe if it was a rarity, but that is in fact not the case in the slightest…” <br /><br />But it is a rarity. Less than .3%. In fact if you account for male victims is more like 0.25%. And most of these will be minor, as already discussed. Hardly an epidemic is it?<br /><br />“…Society perpetuates rape. It makes it sexy…”<br /><br />I don’t know what society you live in, but I don’t think that is true at all. How exactly, does society perpetuate rape? How does it make it sexy? “What “institutional forces” are you talking about? There is only one place that I can think of that ever portrays rape in any kind of positive light, and that is in the Mills and Boon style romance novels – written, by and large, by women for women.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09820442661195206578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-62321990744314728402010-12-09T17:19:31.150+11:002010-12-09T17:19:31.150+11:00As an additional note I find this absurd
"bu...As an additional note I find this absurd<br /><br />"but it is a crime perpetrated by individuals, not by the society itself."<br /><br />Maybe if it was a rarity, but that is in fact not the case in the slightest. Society perpetuates rape. It makes it sexy and other forms of sexual assault that fall short of rape just aren't taken seriously by the police.A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-73930824909636113562010-12-09T17:17:01.778+11:002010-12-09T17:17:01.778+11:00I never specified severity of the crime. However I...I never specified severity of the crime. However I would say everything that you listed can have an emotional impact.<br /><br />"rape is not an institutionalized crime perpetrated on women by some evil cabal of men bent on keeping women in their place. "<br /><br />I agree. I do not however agree that it is not socially constructed. I am not sure I buy into "rape culture" but I will say that society romanticises assault of women, in particular sexual assault. I would also say that is a result of institutional forces that do keep a woman "in her place". Such as the wage gap...which yes still exists in Australia. Viewing women in a subservient role to men means that assault is more acceptable. Which also addresses this;<br /><br />“Murder is a violation of a man’s human rights. Some Australian men are murdered. Therefore Australian men have no human rights.”A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-78296020092584933072010-12-09T15:33:35.405+11:002010-12-09T15:33:35.405+11:00Caveat: Nothing in this post should be construed ...Caveat: Nothing in this post should be construed to mean that I in any way condone any form of violence against any individual or group of people.<br /><br />Like many feminists, you enthusiastically paint the blackest possible picture when discussing anything to do with rape.<br /><br />For Example:<br /><br />You say “…1 in 6 women will be repeatedly sexually abused or raped…” but as usual you don’t actually cite your source of this figure. I assume that you got it from the Australian Centre for the Study of Sexual Assault whose web site says that according to a 1995 survey “…one in six adult women in Australia had experienced sexual assault since the age of 15 years…”. In other words, 1 in 6 women had experienced a sexual assault in their life.<br /><br />It also says “…In 2005, there were an estimated 44,100 persons (note includes men and women) aged 18 years and over who were victims of at least one sexual assault in the 12 months prior to the survey; a victimisation prevalence rate of 0.3%...”<br /><br />The site also explains that the definition of sexual assault comes from the Australian Standard Offence Classification – a quick Google search for that, and we can learn that “Sexual Assault” includes “Non assaultative Sexual Offences”. These include, voyeurism, indecent exposure, and so on. “Sexual Assault” also ranges in scale from pinching a women’s butt in a crowed train to full on rape. <br /><br />So let’s have a look at what these figures actually mean.<br /><br />1. Firstly we can say that most Australian women (5/6) have never been victims of rape or sexual assault<br />2. Secondly we can say that most Australian women will never be the victims of sexual assault<br />3. Thirdly we can say that of those women who do become victims of SA, most will be assaulted only once in their life<br />4. Given that sexual assault covers a range of acts from the minor to the very serious, we can reasonable conclude that more minor offences are committed than very serious ones. Therefore:<br />5. Of the 1 in 6 women who do, during the course of their life, become victims of a sexual assault, most will suffer assaults at the most minor end of the scale.<br />6. In 2005 the likely hood of an individual woman in Australia being sexually assaulted was less than 0.3% (given that the 0.3% figure includes male victims). If you adjust these figures to exclude the women most at risk – prostitutes, homeless, major drug users, etc. You must conclude that the chance of an average Ms Australia being sexually assaulted is pretty remote, and if she is so unfortunate the assault is likely to be reasonably minor.<br /><br />Seems a pretty far cry from “…1 in 6 women will be repeatedly sexually abused or raped…” to me. And yes I get that 1 in 6 is still way too many even given the observations above.<br /><br />Moving on:<br /><br />To claim that women have no human rights in Australia is preposterous. Rights are rights and continue to exist irrespective of whether or not they are being respected. What you are saying is: <br /><br />“Rape is a violation of a woman’s human rights. Some Australian women are raped. Therefore Australian women have no human rights.”<br /><br />This is as daft as me saying:<br /><br />“Murder is a violation of a man’s human rights. Some Australian men are murdered. Therefore Australian men have no human rights.”<br /><br />Final Point:<br /><br />Rape is a crime. Crime is a problem in society and many of society’s members become victims of crime. Rape is a particularly egregious crime, but it is a crime perpetrated by individuals, not by the society itself. Your heroine Andrea Dwonkin’s loopy ravings notwithstanding, rape is not an institutionalized crime perpetrated on women by some evil cabal of men bent on keeping women in their place.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09820442661195206578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-78037889468642097392010-08-22T17:56:48.872+10:002010-08-22T17:56:48.872+10:00There are problems in the UN DHR and so I do not c...There are problems in the UN DHR and so I do not consider it an authoritative list of rights, but for the sake of argument will take it as usable. <br /><br />I think those who make false accusations should be prosecuted for doing so. I think there's a strong argument to be made that such accusations are a violation of the rights of the accused - the accuser is directly violating UN DHR Article [12] attacks on honour/reputation (of the accused) and is using the state against the accused to violate UN DHR Articles [3] liberty and [9] arbitrary arrest. If the accused is convicted and improsoned, [4] servitude/slavery and [13] movement are also violated. The accused has [12] legal protection against attacks on honour, [8] the right to effective remedy and as you mentioned [10] right to a just hearing. <br /><br />Say the police [5] torture information out of a suspect but that suspect gets [10] a fair trial. I am sure you would agree that to say that person did not have his rights violated solely on the basis that the police gave him a fair trial is absurd.<br />Whether FRAs are rights violations does not depend only on upholding [10] but on whether the FRA causes other rights violations. <br /><br /><br />"Where are the human rights of all women in society who are subjected to this constant threat which takes the form of further restriction of liberty. Such as freedom to leave ones house after dark without fear of and the very real possibility of assault."<br /><br />The right you have is freedom from actual assaults - a guarantee that society will attempt to prosecute those who attempt to harm you. You have no right to freedom from fear of/the possibility of assaults.<br /><br />"When I was being raped I did not have those rights, I still don't have the rights to full protection from sexual abuse happening again which is demonstrated by its shameful prevalence."<br /><br />Like anything else (murder, theft...) the right to not be sexually assaulted is something which allows society to attempt to prosecute those who violate the rights of others. It does not force society to preventatively protect people. <br /><br />Prosecution can fail, which is a good thing. Unfortunately it is particularly difficult to prosecute rapes and sexual assaults because of the nature of the crimes so such prosecutions have a higher rate of failure than most.K3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-85725787951160233532010-08-22T09:21:08.231+10:002010-08-22T09:21:08.231+10:00@marriedfem
"You know, now there are studies...@marriedfem<br /><br />"You know, now there are studies saying men are falsely accused of rape 40-60% of the time...I call FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!"<br /><br />I read through the one study that showed that, and it's methodology is so flawed that very few people take it seriously.<br /><br />"...when you find out WHY you start on the path to healing!"<br /><br />Yes, they keep telling me to put the blame where it belongs, and it belongs on squarely to the patriarchy.A socialist open to criticismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619402773454709868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-694927555991963163.post-27019231316462096752010-08-22T09:09:19.813+10:002010-08-22T09:09:19.813+10:00You know, now there are studies saying men are fal...You know, now there are studies saying men are falsely accused of rape 40-60% of the time...I call FUCKING BULLSHIT!!! Not that it doesn't exist, but that much??? Either women are so disillusioned by the patriarchy that any opportunity they get to gain revenge they take, or the more likely, that society (police officers, men, women, juries, judges, etc.)believe a woman's rights are dependent on how she dresses...sick...just sick...<br /><br />I for one had an attempted rape that didn't succeed, when I told my close friend and co-worker (a guy) he said I should report it...I said how can I report it, I don't have evidence, no bruises, no marks, no body fluid, just my word against his...the guy looked at me, shook his head and apologized that it had to be like this...I got away, yes..but if that group of people didn't come into this PUBLIC deli in broad daylight I would've been raped, and maybe dead. I celebrate that I didn't lose myself that day, but there were others that I didn't even realize was rape until my definition of rape expanded into more than what society deems rape, had I known I may not at one point become bitter, women who are bitter are women who don't see the patriarchy, they are living in it and unable to describe WHY...when you find out WHY you start on the path to healing!Kristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04911989413476714329noreply@blogger.com